This week on Mining Money, Brandon Davis, CEO, Tim Travis and Imran Khan of Swan Energy talk about how the November national election will impact the energy industry. From prices to shale play USA, different angles and perspectives are shared.
Jason Spiess: Thank you gentlemen, for joining us today. We’re going to go right to the mailbag today in our Mining Money segment here, and we want to find out what’s going on. You know, this, I get this probably emailed more than anything, uh, is this ESG movement. I’ve talked to some operators; one of them mentioned they were switching their ESG report, part of their annual shareholder deal, from 45 pages to 90 pages. I’ve talked to bankers that say that, oh yeah, you need it, but they don’t know how to implement it. I-I just got a email this morning from a professor down at Texas A&M that was debunking this whole ESG movement. So, you got, you know, BP and Exxon and the big guys trying to talk about the ESG movement, but on the other side, deals are still needing to be done and financing still needs to be be had. I got kind of intrigued last week when you brought up this great bank loan you got from, uh, or this-this rate that you got to do some financing. That’s been a big problem for people, so I thought we’d kind of mesh the two together, see what your guys’ thought is about this ESG movement. Because you guys are out there getting deals done when a lot of people can’t and that’s really important right now. So, I don’t know, uh, which one of you wants to take the ESG baton first, but ESG stands for environmental, uh, social governance and it is a very new sort of a movement that’s kind of, in my opinion, being led by a 16-year-old girl, so you guys can handle that.
Brandon Davis: I-I’ll take, I’ll take it first, and thank you for telling me what it means, because I’ve never really heard of it before, um, this conversation. I guess I have heard of it from people asking, but I had no idea what they were asking about and, uh, the last part of that, we-we— Say what the ‘S’ means again.
Jason Spiess: Uh, environmental social governance, so like a social cause.
Brandon Davis: Well, I-I-I own my company, um, and there’s no social governance happening here nor will it ever, so I don’t care, and if people don’t like me and they don’t like what we do, they don’t have to do business with us. It’s that simple. Um, companies that are corporate and changing, you know, doubling the size of their annual report, based on what you’re saying, to accommodate this, that’s insane. And I don’t know, I-I, uh, the oil and gas industry has become very environmentally friendly over the years, um, and-and-and more so than most industry, um, and for additional pressure to be put on for more environmentally, um, and socially acceptable things, I just, I-I’m not, I’m not into it. I don’t get it, I don’t understand it, and I honestly don’t give a shit. What do you think, Imran?
Imran Khan: You know, it’s-it’s all about the, uh, environmentally challenged.
Brandon Davis: [Laughter]
Imran Khan: Is what I, you know, it’s-it’s good to see these different companies doing what they-they feel their stuff, their-their shareholders, um, want them to say and do and, you know, as Brandon just pointed out, he owns his company completely, all a hundred percent. So, there’s no shareholders, per se, that he needs to make happy around it, right? Um, yeah, it’s just one of those things you-you hear about, uh, BP and how they’re totally, uh, reinventing themselves, um, you know. It’s-it’s great for them, you know, whatever, whatever floats their boat and, you know, when you announce that the day of, uh, you know, when-when you’re, um, what is that? The profit statement is coming out and you’re losing 70 billion dollars, um, yeah, you-you talk about ESG, right? I think that-that’s-that’s kind of, you know, that-that says it all right there, right?
Brandon Davis: Yeah, and go waste more money on that.
Tim Travis: Yeah, it’s one of those things that it seems like its, you know, primary purpose is to make everybody get little butterflies in their stomach, um, and in some cases there are— I, you know, I-I can make an argument that there are instances where you’re focusing a little bit on some ESG, uh, you know, public-facing ESG, at least whether or not your internal policies are different. Um, regardless, uh, I mean, you get like BP still trying to make up ground with the regulators since the condo(?), right? I mean, they-they went on an ESG campaign after that just to get some credibility back. Oil and gas in general is just seen as sort of a dirty industry. It seems like there’s been operators that have bought in and have been very overzealous about trying to rebrand themselves. We, you know, we would, we got an oil field services company in Oklahoma and we did a lot of work for Newfield, but then Canada, now Inventive, and they spent ten, 15 million dollars building a recycling facility for-for flowback water, produced water, um, basically just to put a-a flyer—
Brandon Davis: Say they had it.
Tim Travis: Basically just put a flyer in an investor presentation, and the thing processed a third of the capacity it was supposed to. It was constantly down, uh, but guess what? They got to put it in a brochure and pat themselves on the back for it, and all their, you know, all the hedge funds and investment banks that back them up got to feel better about, you know, them investing and—
Brandon Davis: You know, when I get butterflies about this, about the oil business or our business? When I see airplanes flying and lights turning on and bottles that hold water and other things. Computers, computer chips, you know, everything that everyone uses every day that comes from a byproduct of our business. That’s what gives me butterflies. So, without the oil and gas business, there is no socialization, there’s no travel, there’s nothing. We can use a horse and carriage.
Imran Khan: It just kind of tells you right there that, you know, people take all that stuff for granted.
Brandon Davis: Yep, right. Just, it’s very, you know, it’s like well, yeah, we did that yesterday. What are we doing today, type of thing. And it’s like, you know, let’s actually, uh, take a moment and appreciate the fact that that’s not an easy thing to be able to produce to begin with and to be able to have—
Jason Spiess: Yeah, and I-I think to kind of piggyback on some of the things we’ve talked about over the last few weeks, too, that, you know, it’s a good time to buy right now. And with a lot of the distractions that are going on with this ESG stuff— Because that’s how I really look at it is it’s really kind of a distraction away from the-the-the petroleum industry’s future, because when we look at 93 to 96 percent of our daily products and uses and lifestyle, from our toothpaste to our toothbrush to the things that we, you know, use to get the toothbrush and toothpaste to our house need fossil fuels in some capacity. I, just, in my lifetime, if we went down to, say, 80 percent, that would be an incredible shift in my lifetime. And that’s just, what, 15 decrease of our fossil fuel usage. That’s how much of our lifestyle is intertwined with this and going back 150 years, you know, humans have been getting more green naturally. I mean, we used to burn hay and wood and whales, and when we, when we take a look at, and Imran, you might understand this with your background, but when we look at our deviation from carbon to hydrogen, which is cleaner, you know, going away from carbon to hydrogen in terms of a way to burn fuel, we’re down to like four molecules with natural gas now. It’s extremely clean and humans have been evolving to become more clean without the use, without the help of Greta Thunberg or the Sierra Club for the last 150 years. So, I see this ESG thing almost as kind of like a distraction away from-from, you know, getting a good deal. Right now, that’s actually kind of getting into it, because I don’t see oil and gas going anywhere but at least staying where it’s at for the next, you know, five, ten, 15, 20 years. So very long question to ask. What’s your guys’ thoughts when it comes to, you know, the ESG and just how much of our lifestyle is based on petroleum products? Brandon, you brought up that earlier, so elaborate on that a little bit more, if you wouldn’t mind, from an investment standpoint.
Brandon Davis: Well, I mean, it’s-it’s everywhere. It’s in everything you touch, um.
Tim Travis: And if it’s not, it’s one of the underlying reasons that it got there.
Brandon Davis: Right, that’s the reality we live in, and-and for some, for people to think that we can change that without, um, massive, uh, changes in-in-in the way people live is just insane to me. Uh, I don’t know. I-I don’t understand it. I-I don’t, I don’t understand it. I’ll just say that, like the whole mindset of, uh.
Tim Travis: Well, and-and-and—
Brandon Davis: I don’t get it.
Tim Travis: You know, working in the energy industry and, you know, I got a degree in petroleum engineering from the University of Texas at Austin and, uh, I can tell you that, look, we have a free market economy and the reason that we’re not all running on solar and wind power or geothermal power is because it’s just not a viable alternative for hydrocarbons. It’s not, they can, nobody thinks about the convenience of being able to pick up a gallon of a liquid – gasoline – and being able to drive your car 30 miles down the road.
Brandon Davis: So Jason, you have a petroleum engineer, a chemical engineer, and a high school graduate sitting here having a conversation about this and we’re all saying the same thing. Just some some of us are more technical than others.
Jason Spiess: Wait, wait. Which one’s a high school graduate? Because I’m not, no, I’m just—
Brandon Davis: That’s me!
Imran Khan: He’s got as much, he’s got enough hours to have gone and finished college, by the way. He just likes to say that, just FYI.
Brandon Davis: I have no degree. I’m degreeless!
Tim Travis: He won’t take the last three-hour quarters he needs to get.
Brandon Davis: Yeah, more or less. I wish they would take those hours away that I have so I could get further into the—
Tim Travis: I’ll make some phone calls.
Jason Spiess: But, you know, what— Though, honestly, you bring up a great great point which I-I-I’m gonna fold into this, which is when you take a look at some of the most successful entrepreneurs in-in America, whether it be Henry Ford to, you know, Steve Jobs. Henry Ford, what, an eighth-grade education? Steve Jobs dropped out of, uh, Berkeley, and-and Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard. So, you don’t need an education to get it. You know, you, I’m sorry. I always tell my son that.
Brandon Davis: You know how to make money.
Jason Spiess: Yeah, when you go to school.
Brandon Davis:I quit going to school because I was having to spend money and it cost me money to be there because I wasn’t able to work.
Jason Spiess: That’s right.
Imran Khan: Opportunity cost.
Brandon Davis: Opportunity cost was way too high for me, um, and I was literally in my last semester. Literally. Um, anyway, whatever. The, uh, let’s talk about voting. Have you voted?
Jason Spiess: I have not yet. I have not voted yet, uh, it’s coming up in the next couple weeks but we can certainly talk about that because we’ve had a lot of people wondering.
Brandon Davis: Over here I’ve already voted.
Jason Spiess: Oh yeah, we’ve got something, yeah.
Brandon Davis: You guys have early voting over there?
Jason Spiess: Yeah, we’ve got early voting and-and by the mail and things like that. I just haven’t gotten around to it. We’re-we’re-we’re doing some other things that, um, have kind of taken my attention away. But there’s a lot of people focused on the election right now and, um, on how, you know, that’s going to impact the market, and for me, I’d like to know your opinion on this, because I think it’s actually holding things up. And I personally, I think Trump’s going to win. I don’t think it matters who’s going to win because, um, the oil and gas industry ain’t going anywhere no matter who wins. I mean, uh, Biden even, I think he flip-flopped on that a little bit.
Brandon Davis: But the main thing I wanted to talk about was, you know, now that I’ve already voted, what do I do for the next two weeks? Because I can’t turn on the television, I can’t read the news, because all it is is the social media and people trying to sway votes one way or the other. So, I’m kind of, I’m, it’s kind of a interesting, uh. I’ve never been, I’ve never voted this early so it’s kind of a, uh, and I’m holding my breath just to see what happens. There’s a lot of money on the sidelines too.
Jason Spiess: It’d be nice if we get some ESG set up so that you could have a way to switch all that stuff off and turn the branding off once you’ve cast your ballot. [laughter]
Brandon Davis: Yeah, we actually, we do some Facebook advertising, um, and we paused it for the entire month of October, because the political spending was so high that it was driving our rates up so high, we couldn’t we couldn’t afford it. Like, it was, it blew us, blew us out of the, basically killed it for us, uh, that’s how much money they’re spending. It’s-it’s like the eight figures per campaign per week.
Jason Spiess: It’s-it’s remarkable, and in fact in there, in a lot of radio stations, you have to have, uh, buys way in advance because they only got a certain amount of inventory and these political ads, they pay top dollar and cash so there’s no collection.
Brandon Davis: I’m not going to tell you who I’m voting for either, Jason, but I’m voting for the only candidate that loves this country. That’s what I’m doing, the-the, that’s who I voted for.
Jason Spiess: Have you, have you found that people out there are-are impacted, either, either waiting or they’re investing or not have you found that the—?
Brandon Davis: Yes.
Jason Spiess: Yeah.
Brandon Davis: Yeah, lots of people are on, so lots of people are scared to death that Joe Biden’s going to win and it’s going to kill the economy. Lots of people are scared of that, um, and then all the haters just don’t want Trump to win. So, I, you know, it’s going to be interesting to see what happens. I-I-I haven’t heard anyone tell me that they’re voting for, um, Donald Trump but I, a lot of that’s been implied. I know a lot of people who are, um, but I’ve heard a lot of people tell me they’re going to vote for Joe Biden and I always ask—
Imran Khan: What’s the stigma there, by the way?
Brandon Davis:That’s one question I asked them, was like, why are you voting for Joe Biden? And it’s either because they hate Donald Trump, um, or he didn’t react the right way to COVID-19, but Joe Biden would have because he was telling people, you know—
Imran Khan: Go back in time and replace them—
Jason Spiess: That’s interesting.
Brandon Davis: That’s the only thing, those are the only reasons people tell me that they’re voting for Joe Biden. I don’t understand how someone can vote for someone because they hate someone else. Like, the guy can’t even put together a damn sentence.
Tim Travis: It’s not a vote for Biden. It’s a vote against Trump.
Brandon Davis: Yeah.
Tim Travis: It seems like is the, most of the ballots that are being cast for Biden.
Jason Spiess: I just, see, that’s-that’s very interesting to me because I-I got in a a debate last night, uh, with some people about this and, you know, our program’s non-political for the most part. We’ll talk, we’ll talk about policy and have policy makers on, but we don’t, you know, we don’t get into the big sensational pardon and the gotcha questions and things like that. If we do talk politics, it’s pretty civilized like we’re doing right now. And when, last night, I ended up sticking up for Trump and explaining a few things, like they were just ragging on his COVID handling, and I looked at the people and I said, “Actually, I disagree with you. I think he’s the only one showing any leadership.” And they were appalled and they looked at me, and I said, “Would you like to read the emails from my kids superintendent and from the principals who are asking me how to lead the school when they’re getting paid to lead the school? Would you like to see the written, uh, uh, letters I got from public leaders asking me how I would do their job?” I said, “Whether you like Trump or not, he’s the only one making definitive decisions during a time when people need definitive decisions. Anybody can sit back and be a, you know, backseat driver, but it takes a real leader to actually make decisions, right or wrong, to move the country ahead.” Well, that, of course, got some people’s ires up and then they said, “Oh, you work in the oil and gas industry, so you just love Trump.” I said, “Actually, that’s not even close to the truth.” I said, “The reason that I stick up for Trump is because I’m not afraid of immigrants coming and stealing my job. I’m afraid of my health insurance premium going up. It’s those types of things that I’m worried about.” And that quieted the room really quick then because, you know, he is the only one showing leadership and he is tackling on some real problems that affect the average person. Like their-their pocketbook and their insurance premiums and those types of things. So, I don’t know if you guys want to do anything with that little tirade I just had, but I thought it was interesting, because, man, you can’t even go to a dinner party now without somebody getting down your throat, you know.
Brandon Davis: Well, it’s-it’s visceral too. It’s not, it’s not just a conversation. It’s-it’s aggressive, and-and I’ve experienced that too, and I just laugh at people, because it’s just, you know, it’s like, you’re going, you want to silence me is basically what their whole mission is.
Imran Khan: Because they don’t have any points.
Brandon Davis: Because there’s no either agenda at all so. What were you going to say, Tim?
Tim Travis: I was just going to say it’s-it’s almost like, you know, if people would just kind of let their emotions take a back seat from it, take a step back and— COVID-19 is what set the whole world on fire but, um, for the most part, I would, I would venture to say pretty confidently that most people’s lives have improved and their financial positions have improved since Trump took office.
Brandon Davis: Period.
Tim Travis: The economy has crushed it.
Brandon Davis: Period.
Tim Travis: Everyone’s retirement accounts are up, 401ks are up, uh, jobs are, you know, job unemployment rates down, uh, you know. It’s-it’s, if you would just get it out of your head that, yeah, he says some dumb stuff on Twitter on every once in a while, [laughter] his cabinet is a revolving door because he can be hard to work with, like just, you know, get the—
Brandon Davis: I can relate.
Tim Travis: Get you, get the celebrity act part of it out of it and just look at what the results are, you know— It was, it took, this goes back to the ESG thing but one— You know, during the Obama administration, um, there was, uh, the EPA passed a regulation that all cars they had their, I forget what it was called, cars would have to meet certain fuel efficiency standards, right?
Imran Khan: Cars for Clunkers.
Tim Travis: That-that was a program trading old cars. There’s another one that was basically for every— A vehicle manufacturer required efficiency, yeah, average efficiency, which is just comical to me, because again, if we live in a free market economy, and that would naturally happen anyway.
Jason Spiess: Yeah.
Imran Khan: Through competition.
Tim Travis: Why would you buy a less efficient Honda Civic when you could get a more efficient Honda Civic? And a Honda, Honda will be motivated to make their cars more efficient because you’re more likely likely to buy them. That’s just the way things work. But instead they passed the, you know, this legislation so that they could pat themselves on the back and, you know, it all it did was make, uh, you know, these massive car manufacturers, which can’t just spit on on a diamond, change business strategies, uh.
Brandon Davis: Then there were some of them that were cheating with the emissions and all that. That’s what happened. I mean, yeah.
Tim Travis: You know, the Europeans who can do no wrong. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Imran Khan: That was funny when they got caught.
Tim Travis: It was.
Jason Spiess: The Europeans, by the way, if you looked at how they’ve done with their ESG movement, their green movement, I know Germany they’re, in Germany is the model for, you know, green energy and their-their electric bills and their energy bills are four times what they’re supposed to be, and they had to fire up the coal plants anyways. And what they call green is burning biofuel, which is burning trees. It’s-it’s-it’s—
Brandon Davis: So yeah, right, which makes a lot of sense, right? Let’s cut down the forest so we can have energy when we don’t need to.
Jason Spiess: Right.
Brandon Davis: But, um, it’s it’s amazing to me, and-and—
Tim Travis: Germany has the largest the largest movable piece of equipment on the, or on planet earth. It’s called the Bagger 288 and it’s for coal mining. The thing is just, it’s insanity. Have you watched Westworld, uh?
Brandon Davis: Yes, the big spinny thing. I’ve seen that.
Tim Travis: Yes, that’s an actual machine and—
Brandon Davis: We need one like that, like a mini version of that for our gold mine. We need, we need to find one, um, it would help a lot. I was going to say though like, you know, I think about this whole thing with California and they’re getting the cat, the gas car thing and, um.
Imran Khan: 2035.
Brandon Davis: Yes, but what I, what I wanna know is how the, how people that are, you know, on in poverty levels today— If-if-if we could fast forward to 2035 and say all the cars were electric, what’s their electric bill gonna be? How much is it going to increase people’s home electricity bill if all, you know, all cars and all moving objects are essentially using that same power grid to power their vehicles? Uh, it’s going to double and triple cost and that’s the thing that people haven’t thought. Oh, that’s, it’s great for the environment but, you know, it’s going to double our homeless population, um, every six months. How is this— How’s that source— No, that’s not, I’m just, I’m, I was being—
Tim Travis: No, exactly, but to the point, the electricity has to be generated from somewhere and you can do it. I mean, there’s clean sources. Geothermal energy is one, wind, solar, but what I think a lot of people just totally miss on is the fact that the amount of infrastructure that would be required. It’s just, it’s not, it’s not feasible. I mean, you know, when the wind’s not blowing, uh, you know, your air conditioner doesn’t work and the ventilators of the hospital don’t work and that can’t happen. There has to be a constant, consistent energy supply and you just don’t get that with most widely available quote-unquote clean energy sources.
Imran Khan: That all take products made by byproducts of oil and gas.
Jason Spiess: One of the reasons why I think that, uh, Trump is actually doing a very good job leading and, uh, is getting the backlash he is, is because he’s trying to redirect the narrative. Right now, the narrative is that we got ten years on this planet and we’re all dead. That’s-that’s what I heard last night over and over again, that we have ten years, that their name in ten years now. That’s the catastrophe and—
Brandon Davis: That’s exciting!
Jason Spiess: And-and, I know, I’m like, I mean, I-I’m going to go max Mike.
Brandon Davis: Nothing better for me, Jason, than to know when I’m going to die, and if it’s ten years from yesterday, I’m going to live it up.
Jason Spiess: That’s all I kept thinking about, too, is that if you’re telling me I got ten years left, uh, uh, Bora Bora, Hawaii, you name it.
Brandon Davis: I don’t care about the environment anymore at all.
Jason Spiess: Exactly, the environment—
Brandon Davis: That’s the last thing on my mind. I’m going to enjoy myself, because if there’s ten years away, we can’t save it.
Jason Spiess: That-that’s where my mind is too. That’s why I’m going, I don’t get this whole planet of platitudes thing, you know, this-this-this catastrophe is-is not the narrative that is healthy, and Trump is trying to steer us away from that. And as, you know, that-that narrative is trying to be steered away, the people that like that low-hanging fruit of the fear-mongering, they don’t want that, and they’re in power right now. A lot of them are, with their nice cush government jobs, so they-they don’t want that guaranteed check to go away. So, you’re seeing a little bit of that backlash happen. But honestly, um, uh, Tim you brought up a great point about the infrastructure, but I think you need to go a step further, because one of the issues with the electric cars and the whole electric movement that no one is talking about is who’s going to replace the roads with the gas tax and all these other things. Because when you go buy an electric car, you get a sticker shock from the state, because you got to pay— How many miles are going to be driven on that car in a gas tax when you go register the vehicle? So how many people are going to want to pay five to six to ten thousand dollars to register their vehicle? That’s going to be a sticker shock. They’re not going to expect that. And how is the state then going to figure out a way to replace that-that gas tax that is no longer being utilized because everybody has their electric cars now in their house? This is the kind of stuff that is actual legitimate conversations but no one will have that because they’re busy saying we got five years until this planet burns up. What are you doing driving a car, driving an SUV? It’s-it’s-it’s-it’s, that’s why I call it the planet of platitudes. We got to get to the realm of reality, away from the planet of platitude. So, um, anyway, I don’t know if you guys ever thought about that gas tax thing or not.
Tim Travis: It’s an interesting point you brought up and I hadn’t thought about it before, but that’s sort of, you know, a common theme when, you know, legislation gets passed and initiatives are undertaken is that, you know, unexpected things that weren’t on anybody’s radar pop up after the fact, right? In hindsight, um, the Affordable Care Act is one of them, uh, you know, like insurance supremes. We renew our company’s insurance every year. It just keeps going up and up and up and up and up and up and up and it’s like there’s just no end in sight. I just, I don’t know. It’s like, good it’s like, you know, ESG good intentions and then, uh, just, you-you fumble on the handoff, you know, you run one lap and, uh, that’s it.
Jason Spiess: All right, guys, let’s wrap her up, looking at the clock. Uh, we’ve gone a lot of different directions today, but let’s get back to the investment side of things and, you know, we’ve said before, it’s a good time to invest in a number of different things, but it really is, it and, you know, especially if people are waiting for the election and a number of different things. So, let’s just kind of summarize, you know, your guys’ views over the next few weeks as we get ready for the election, and what people should be thinking about as they think about their money as we get into this election season. Go ahead; whoever wants to start, go-go right ahead.
Brandon Davis: I’ll-I’ll start. It’s pretty simple, you know, election’s in two weeks. It’s already started. It’ll probably go for two weeks after, based on everything I’m hearing, which is what it is. Um, nothing is going to change, no matter what happens with the election. And so as far as investing goes, look for great opportunities, because there are a lot of them right now. Um, they’re-they’re-they’re easy to see and, um, they’re not hard to get a hold of if-if you look.
Tim Travis: Yeah, if you’re, if you’re someone who isn’t just a wound-up little stress ball about, you know, your investment portfolio, um, if you are I-I would lean toward advising to someone to not look at it for about the next three months. The market will react, it’ll, it, and then it’ll rebound, whichever direction it goes, right? And then it’ll sort of be back to the status quo, more than likely, um, you know, but if you’re, if you’re not a wound-up little stress ball about the whole situation, there are opportunities on the table, while everybody else is over or under reacting to the situation, where a level-handed, level-headed individual can come in and make some moves.
Imran Khan: Yeah, prices are low. That’s the bottom line in all the different industries. I think people just need to realize that you’re getting it discounted right now and that’s where the upside is built in, so.
Brandon Davis: Gas prices are up a dollar for the last 60 days.
Imran Khan: Yeah, Jesus.
Brandon Davis: Just went from a dollar-eighty, dollar-sixty-five, dollar-seven credit to 2.80.
Imran Khan: And the beginning of COVID, you’re nominal, even-even June, July time. It’s gone up quite a bit, so it, that just kind of shows you the-the-the incline that-that is there throughout the industry and in other industries too.
Jason Spiess: Hey guys, before I forget, uh, I brought up that bank loan earlier and I know last week you guys wanted to check with your banker to see if you could, you know, disclose it and that sort of thing. We kind of teased on it but, uh, can we revisit that as we kind of can conclude here? Is there, can you disclose some of that bank information for me?
Brandon Davis: Yeah, definitely. So-so the bank that we used was, uh, First Capital Bank of Texas, um, and, you know, they’re out of the different banks that I’ve-I’ve reached out to from an oil and gas perspective. Um, you know, they’re really on it and, uh, they’re definitely, uh, in the right competition and I want to say aggressive, uh, but, you know, in a sense aggressive with-with the right mindset, so I think they definitely are are looking to be able to help people who got good deals and finance those deals that are out there right now, so others that are out there that are looking for an advantage with a good bank, uh, definitely, uh, First Capital Bank of Texas, uh, has been doing some great work with us.
Jason Spiess: First Capital Bank of Texas. Okay, all right, sounds good. All right, thanks, guys
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